Oooooo nut just told you that you're not funny! Get rekt hattori!

BG blocks projectiles and deals light damage to air units nearby? Imagine it's like a wind-storm.

And on the topic of Vs, the clones should have slightly less health than they do, but look exactly like the V as pumu suggested. I like the idea of saving my clones till I have to tele dodge a shinobi, then clone and attack the ninja. That way I'm actually using my V with its clones until posses recharges, because you couldn't just rush it with other units.

Blind Gate doesn't need to deal any type of damage. Blocking projectiles is a must however.

My overall idea for the V after reading all the posts is this: V's possess should not be canceled when the player presses the attack button. They should add extra health for the clone level 2 upgrade, and have the clones look exactly like the V (I changed my mind). The clones looking exactly like the V shouldn't be a big problem as V possessing will give him away. The current V is just like blind gate. Great on paper, bad in practice.

What about a sandstorm as a blind gate replacement? I feel like it would fit better thematically since earth+air is dust or sand. It could damage enemy units standing in it slightly while reducing all projectile damage by half(?) if a projectile moves through it (possibly for both sides, that could make it so the camping potential is more limited) or something to that effect for the duration. And of course it could probably retain it's effect of limiting vision too.

I'm thinking that reducing the damage of projectiles is gonna be a pain in the ass to code, so how about projectiles can't pass through it at all? Like a wall, only you can pass through it (and be damaged).

Quote from IHATETHISNAME

What about a sandstorm as a blind gate replacement? I feel like it would fit better thematically since earth+air is dust or sand. It could damage enemy units standing in it slightly while reducing all projectile damage by half(?) if a projectile moves through it (possibly for both sides, that could make it so the camping potential is more limited) or something to that effect for the duration. And of course it could probably retain it's effect of limiting vision too.

Why allow projectiles to pass through at all? The way I see it, if you're limiting the other player's view, how are their units supposed to fire at something that they can't see?

Completely stopping all vision and projectiles essentially cuts off all of Order and Chaos' options for DPS. It's invincibility, essentially.

Quote from IHATETHISNAME

Completely stopping all vision and projectiles essentially cuts off all of Order and Chaos' options for DPS. It's invincibility, essentially.

You can see past it when you get a unit past it right? Order can just send in a shadow. And crawlers might actually have late game use.

I think because it costs 550g, it should at LEAST block ghosts, and do mediocre damage. Blocking vision is not enough. If blind gate blocked projectiles whether or not it dealt damage, it would be a threat. On the receiving end, I would buy a shadow just so I can scout safely.

Yes it's incredibly powerful, but you have to remember walls block them too. Walls also block units and also hide spellcasters. You have to weigh it against it being timed and it's main function, visual cover is useless after a few units run past, or if they retreat beyond the fog of war.

The way I see ele right now is they have WAY too many options for an opponent they are already fighting at melee range. If ele can get into melee range mid game its gg against most comps.

Blind gate in my opinion should do something to give ele strength in mobile, ranged, fighting, something they don't really have much in, rather than further strengthen them in melee fights - which are already too strong on short maps.

What we're suggesting for bg IS something to give ele more options against ranged. Don't you think blocking projectiles would help against ranged units. ;) Elementals can easily access ranged fighting with airs and infernos, just not against wings.

Quote from nutsophast

What we're suggesting for bg IS something to give ele more options against ranged. Don't you think blocking projectiles would help against ranged units. ;) Elementals can easily access ranged fighting with airs and infernos, just not against wings.

No actually, I don't. Not unless bg was movable, because the opponent could just fall back and snipe like they already have to do.

Hmmm, you're quite right. The only problem I see is wings (at least for me, if any one of you can counter them, please tell me) against albows, just get cycloids + airs/fires. For archers just get infernos. Since ele is good for pushing people back, you can combine into bg at the enemy base so they don't have a place to run.

The only challenging thing is probably going to be maintaining one earth along with your whole army for the critical moment.

Quote from IHATETHISNAME

Completely stopping all vision and projectiles essentially cuts off all of Order and Chaos' options for DPS. It's invincibility, essentially.

I actually think it wouldn't be overpowered, because
1) It's not cheap: it costs 550 gold to make, which is almost 3 times as much as a miner wall. It's also difficult and risky to run an air and an earth up to the front line to combine them.
2) It's immovable: while it may prevent an advance, the enemy can simply fall a little ways back and the ele player can't do anything about it.
3) It's temporary: it's the only thing in the game that disappears after a certain amount of time. That means that if the opponent just waits them out, the blind gate will be gone, and nothing will have come of that 550 gold.

So yes, the blind gate grants invincibility. But the way I see it, it grants invincibility at a heft cost, it grants invincibility in a small area of the map, and it grants invincibility for a limited amount of time. Is that temporary invincibility better than getting an air and a miner, both of which are investments that are useful throughout the game? I suppose it depends on the situation. But a blind gate that blocks projectiles seems to me like a very powerful but situational tool, factors which I think balance it out.

My problem with ele is you're already broken as hell if you push the opponent back to statue with just scorch and infernoes. It's a very unhealthy play style right now having so many options that can't hit opposing units if they fall back - but have no counter if the opponent runs out of space. Basically, ele right now handles everything by walking the opponent to their statue no matter what number of scorplings they need to get there under arrow fire- which makes for almost no micro and almost no skill in comparison to OvO or OvC. That's what I'd like to see bg fix alongside some nerfs to ele's upfront damage and buffs to its fighting on a ranged level.