Quote from AsePlayer

Then you wouldn't be reaping the archers, isn't that the whole point of the marrow's? At least that is what the earlier posts said. Plus, shinobi ahead of time or just wait out the reap. For example, bait the reap and run back as much as possible, so you won't go as far. Then boom. Shinobi.

I don't usually have to worry about stuff cause of my build (huehue) I push him into his base and hellfist him. (Eclipsors numbers are quick, if he dosen't space properly he dies). They have to have a strong pressuring early game for me to have issues reaping a ninja.

Quote from spino

I don't usually have to worry about stuff cause of my build (huehue) I push him into his base and hellfist him. (Eclipsors numbers are quick, if he dosen't space properly he dies). They have to have a strong pressuring early game for me to have issues reaping a ninja.

What kind of 1200 players do you go against?

best way i find, early pressure with cats on swords shortly followed by bombs to push opponent of center tower an back into spawn, try to keep atleast 4 cats an a bomb around the early game so that when opponent has 1st archer ready with sword/s and tries to reclaim center you can atleast have a fighting chance to snipe the archer quick an manouver around sword hits to keep cats alive and regenerating ( depending on opponent you might not kill archer but you pushed him back off tower an back into his spawn while maintaining pressure) you now have options and should be ahead eco wise.

Thats my brief sum up of how to prevent not necessarily deal with a mass. fact of the matter is if he has a mass of archers and you dont have sufficient deads or juggs to counter then its gona be a downward slope from there. Constant pressure with chaos is vital!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from Pricey20

best way i find, early pressure with cats on swords shortly followed by bombs to push opponent of center tower an back into spawn, try to keep atleast 4 cats an a bomb around the early game so that when opponent has 1st archer ready with sword/s and tries to reclaim center you can atleast have a fighting chance to snipe the archer quick an manouver around sword hits to keep cats alive and regenerating ( depending on opponent you might not kill archer but you pushed him back off tower an back into his spawn while maintaining pressure) you now have options and should be ahead eco wise.

Thats my brief sum up of how to prevent not necessarily deal with a mass. fact of the matter is if he has a mass of archers and you dont have sufficient deads or juggs to counter then its gona be a downward slope from there. Constant pressure with chaos is vital!!!!!!!!!!!!

A good order player would probably get a wall so you cant bomber stream or have the archers in really any danger.

Quote from AsePlayer

A good order player would probably get a wall so you cant bomber stream or have the archers in really any danger.

Deads or good eclipsor pushes

Quote from spino

Deads or good eclipsor pushes

Wouldn't the wall be for early game, meaning tank into spears and more archers, perhaps pop in a meric or two?

Quote from AsePlayer

Wouldn't the wall be for early game, meaning tank into spears and more archers, perhaps pop in a meric or two?

Wall probably forces them to give up tower, for they got it to stop their opponent. Chaos players has advantage, probably has 2 deads/eclipsors and a jug by 3:00. Can stream juggerknights and their ranged unit. Spellcaster a little over 5 minutes to stop mages coming into play.

IMO Eclipsors work better vs archer mass. Any micro mistakes, you can pick of the archers even though it requires more micro yourself, you also don't have to worry about pushing in to far as often.

then thats perfect, if i force someone into getting a wall, i have tower then im gonna stream deads with a couple juggers untill your pushed right back to statue

Quote from AsePlayer

Then you wouldn't be reaping the archers, isn't that the whole point of the marrow's? At least that is what the earlier posts said. Plus, shinobi ahead of time or just wait out the reap. For example, bait the reap and run back as much as possible, so you won't go as far. Then boom. Shinobi.

If he shinobis ahead of time you just walk your Marrow backwards and it stays alive because the Ninja doesn't reach it
If he waits for you to reap you just don't reap with all your Marrows and then his ninjas do nothing. You can also use Jugg charge to pressure ninjas trying to stay in the fight without diving spellcasters under reap. Juggerknight pressure should force the Ninja away or to Shinobi, at which point you do as above and walk away from it.

Quote from spino

IMO Eclipsors work better vs archer mass. Any micro mistakes, you can pick of the archers even though it requires more micro yourself, you also don't have to worry about pushing in to far as often.

deads are tankier and op in a mass

dead mass > eclipsor mass

also aren't dead snipes the same thing because of poison

the poison should usually kill them off as archer mass is only a problem in long maps (the archer won't survive the trip back to garrison in medium)

and when you do push in, garrisoning archers under poison snipes is hard because, well, it's a mass

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

deads are tankier and op in a mass

dead mass > eclipsor mass

also aren't dead snipes the same thing because of poison

the poison should usually kill them off as archer mass is only a problem in long maps (the archer won't survive the trip back to garrison in medium)

and when you do push in, garrisoning archers under poison snipes is hard because, well, it's a mass

But you can't escape, Have to juggerknight stream the whole time because you cannot run away. Dead snipes=/=Eclipsor snipes. Eclipsors snipe are instant and have possibilities for more due to eclipsor speed. while dead target downs one archer can tank all the hits and they'll run away while eclipsors hit forward kite repeat.

Basically eclipsors are more risky with the possibility of a greater payout CvO

@Skele If you have marrowkia then you logically have a good ranged force and can kill the reaped ninjas on their return trip. So they do nothing and die. If you don'tn feel you can kill ninjas with just ranged you charge with jugs.

Ninjas aren't too much of a problem as problem.

Like you said, wings can chase and kill archers and they are more flexible early on. You have to be aggressive early and keep up the pressure. However wings suffer greatly against turtles, they're too weak to handle that.

I find that deads can be much more powerful in the long run. You have to advance slowly as you gain more deads, this way you def don't lose that ground. When you push the archers back there is no need to escape, deads are much better against turtles, in large numbers even merics can't heal all the damage. Deads are easily the ones that have a greater pay off.

this is pretty much an arguement of dead/wing again

in my experience of dealing with archer masser like slipnot/destruitor2013/Lanicifir , deads are always the way that I go for
not only because deads come out faster and cheaper cost, but also they are more tanky and won't be sniped by archer due to protection of jug.
The poison guts also eliminates the possibility of order turtle.

Wings only work when the order player did not get a wall . With a wall and meric support, order player can easily turtle and deal with damage from wings.
So far as a main order player, 90% of my OvC losses were from deads, not from wings.

Short answer: You don't.

Long answer: There's no cost-efficient way of dealing with an archer mass. Just pressure in before he solidifies it esp. if you crack in his tanks.

Deads are more expensive in the long run though. To get your first dead you need 300 gold to get your poison upgrade. And you need lots of mana to keep up with the 10 mana per gut, 6 miners if the order player has merics. I find it's good to use marrows, you could reap archers to get killed by your deads. Chaos is basically the stronger empire in the mid-game, you could easily kill order before they pull off an extremely lethal mass.