Quote from nutsophast

Deads are more expensive in the long run though. To get your first dead you need 300 gold to get your poison upgrade. And you need lots of mana to keep up with the 10 mana per gut, 6 miners if the order player has merics. I find it's good to use marrows, you could reap archers to get killed by your deads. Chaos is basically the stronger empire in the mid-game, you could easily kill order before they pull off an extremely lethal mass.

no lol

only first dead more expensive
but each dead = 300gold + 100 mana, each wing = 400 gold + 150 mana

so the gold cost alone wings are already higher. Also getting mana is much more easier in med game/late game than getting gold lol

Besides, I don't find any efficiency of using marrow. Medusa is much better choice as medusa can one hit kill magikill/V/ninja. The venom flux can also work as inferno meteor lock, can also prevent chaos player from chasing by archers.
Marrow is only single target, the reap cannot even kill one arch, and hell fist is extremely difficult to target and low power. Azxc is the exceptional case of using marrow tho

I suppose you're kind of right. But if you make one little mistake with eco management you will not have mana for anything. I don't see azxc having any exceptional skill with marrow lol. I think only person who really knows about marrow is probably gamer.

Does anyone feel that hell fists needs a range incraese? Maybe one more fist bigger fists or more spread out fists it seems you have to be very close to use hell fists. While blast e wall Posion spray are easy to aim and or have better range.

Magikill also have 1 more spell (thats fair I have no problem with that) but the spells all have shorter cool down than reaper and hell fists.

Just came in too my mind while people were talking about hell fists

Quote from mysterybat

and hell fist is extremely difficult to target and low power. Azxc is the exceptional case of using marrow tho

.-.
I still instakills archers and brings swords down to 25% if you hit correct angle, but you only get the angle vs 1600 and lower players who are not yet micro masters.

Quote from spino

.-.
I still instakills archers and brings swords down to 25% if you hit correct angle, but you only get the angle vs 1600 and lower players who are not yet micro masters.

considering the fact that hell fist takes extra 50 gold + 100mana+ 40 secs long queue time for researching , while it has a cool down of 20 sec
but the hell fist power is lower than the blast of magikill,20 mana for each spell, the area of damage is smaller, difficult to micro ,and unstable damage.

and look at magikill
0 cost for blast, a short cool down of 13 sec, with a very nice AoE + damage.

The full damage of hell fist (with perfect micro) is only almost comparable to blast , but consider the cost + queue time + difficulty to micro, it is quite unfair lol

so I honestly had the idea that hell fist needs a buff long time ago. But no one agree with me lol

Quote from mysterybat

considering the fact that hell fist takes extra 50 gold + 100mana+ 40 secs long queue time for researching , while it has a cool down of 20 sec
but the hell fist power is lower than the blast of magikill,20 mana for each spell, the area of damage is smaller, difficult to micro ,and unstable damage.

and look at magikill
0 cost for blast, a short cool down of 13 sec, with a very nice AoE with strong burn damage.

so I honestly had the idea that hell fist needs a buff long time ago. But no one agree with me lol

It's okay mystery I agree with you :D.

But if hell fists start reking me in my O v C, you're dead to me. >;D

Hell fists needs a buff

Damage is definatly unstable i sometimes insta kill archers some times i dont. Unlike Blast I have to think about how I use the spell blast is quick and you can move on too the next spell. Also by the time you have used it once the battle is over before you can use it again.

What about a extra fist?

15s Cool down

30s Research

Maybe larger fists?

I think it's also unfair that the Magikill has 3 spells that have lower cooldown than a marrow that has 2 spells and longer cool down.

Quote from lewislewis

I think it's also unfair that the Magikill has 3 spells that have lower cooldown than a marrow that has 2 spells and longer cool down.

Yeah, then again a meric doesn't insta kill most units either.

Well, hell fists only has a high skill ceiling. If you can aim it properly the damage is far from unstable. The only buff that would make sense is range, then it might be easier to line up that hell fist. Imo it's not very good to compare marrow to mage and say that it's UP, mage is all about that aoe while marrow is not.

No hell fist is already strong as it is
and Mystery, magikill blast>hell fist are you kidding me o_O

maybe true if the target is stationary but I don't know
you gonna hit him with 2 fists instead of 1 fist only then while require precise timing (and luck?)

@aseplayer

I'm saying they could maybe relax the cool down on hell fists and or a slight range buff

I get that Magikill are aoe and that's fine. Marows are half assasin (reap) and half aoe (hell fists) please tell me what hell fists is if it is not aoe? Is it a also a 'assasin spell'?

Quote from nutsophast

Well, hell fists only has a high skill ceiling. If you can aim it properly the damage is far from unstable. The only buff that would make sense is range, then it might be easier to line up that hell fist. Imo it's not very good to compare marrow to mage and say that it's UP, mage is all about that aoe while marrow is not.

"if you can aim it properly"

I played chaos for more than 1 year, and got to dm No1 with chaos long time ago, and I still find it so difficult to "aim properly" -_- LOL
Hell fist itself is an AoE spell , and marrowkai is just another kind of spell caster


If hell fist does not make a nice damage, and you tell me to pay 400 gold + 400 mana for just a unit with reap function only
I would just prefer to stick with juggerknights that can use charge to stun, far more efficient than marrow and cheaper

In my experience of fighting chaos players, I rarely see any marrowkai, all I see is just medusa.
If an unit is underused, that means there are better options rather than getting that unit. (same situation for order archer and albow, archers obviously better , so no one wants to use albows)


Also, imo due to the difficulty to micro that spell and long queue time, the spell deserves a greater power.

The way hellfist works is a mid-range ticking "fist" up from the earth. Everytime a new fist is generated, EVERY FIST ALREADY EXISTING DOES AN ADDITIONAL TICK OF DAMAGE.

This means units standing right next to the marrowkai will take upwards 6 or 7 ticks of fist. That is a fucking shitload of damage. However, further units take less as they'll tank fewer ticks. Keep in mind increasing range will increase damage on the close ticks.

IMO, reduce reap cd by 2 second. This is the main spell of the marrow, not hellfist. This means 3 reaps come 6 seconds faster, which is a huge difference.

Quote from Azxc

No hell fist is already strong as it is
and Mystery, magikill blast>hell fist are you kidding me o_O

maybe true if the target is stationary but I don't know
you gonna hit him with 2 fists instead of 1 fist only then while require precise timing (and luck?)

no i am not kidding lol
magikill blast can one hit kill archers and miners(without miner hustle)

but hell fist cannot achieve it without perfect micro , and even with perfect micro, the maximum damage is still almost same as blast with burn lol

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I think even the damage of hell fist is not buffed, at least the research time and cool down should not be that long lol
13-15 sec like a blast will be much better

Reaper cd should be reduced to 10s
hellfists cd should be to 15s

Why cant hellfists be better than Blast?

its researched Blast isent that's resources and time
It costs mana to use
it has higher cooldown
Blast does immediate and DOT damage
Blast is easier to aim
Blast is easier to micro you don't really have to micro blast once
Blast does immediate damage all in one go and is instant you don't have to wait for fists to rise from the ground. If the unit moves even just a little bit hell fists could miss or not the the maximum amount of damage it could.
Hellfists has a oval aiming thing
The damage of blast is the same regardless of how close you are to the center of the spell. if your on the edge you take the same damage. depending on how many fists touch you take less damage.
You have to be very close to get 'lots of fists on the target' Needs a range buff.

The only thing hell fists has going for it is that its probably the best looking spell and marrows are my favorite unit for looks. (if I was being more competitive I would get medusas) The cool down is ridiculous. for a unit that only has 2 spells (maybe increase posion spray and e-wall cool down)

Marrows are very underused

personally when ever I have used them

The battle is already won OR could have been won without the unit.

Reaping giants is a good way to use them. but their spell casters not anti giant units.


PS. Please stop comparing merics to marrows medusas magikills. They are support units not spell casters or if you really want to say their spell casters then their not damage dealing spell casters like a magikill marrow or medusa.