Hello I have noticed a BIG problem with the healing of elementals.

The original non upgraded water Sacrificial Mass Heal, heals friendly units for a fixed amount of one bar for every units regardless of how many units there are. With the Advanced Healing Upgrade this amount is spread out between the units. The upgrade only makes waters heal more when there are 3 or less units being healed. When there are 4 or 5 units being heal, the water heals about the same amount as the non-upgraded water. When there are more than 5 units the Upgraded water heals LESS than the non-upgraded water. With 7 units it healed only about a half a bar.

This means the expensive upgrade of 300 gold and 100 mana is only beneficial in early when you have 4 or less units. If the upgrade is purchased mid or late game when you probably have 10 or more units it will hardly heal them at all.

This upgrade is useless. It doesn't make any sense to waste valuable early game resources to heal a couple of units and to make it so you can't heal your units late or mid game.

When the upgrade actually healed more than the non-upgraded water before the nerf, it was a good investment to make so one can heal their units mid and late game. But now it's impossible to heal your units for a decent amount late game without spending 1000s of gold on tons of waters.

The Advanced Healing Upgrade either needs to heal a much higher amount spread across the units or needs to be a higher fixed amount that does not spread across units.

Please share your thoughts.

Quote from jerrytt

Are you heisenbergcook? lol

REPLAY testing it http://www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay10010145&version=2.29

He is indeed anything heisenberg related.

The problem with water heal is obvious, make it heal more like the old water heal and then problem solved.

Water heal is far more balanced now. If you relied on max hp restore before you aren't doing it right. There's no issue here.

Quote from WyzDM

Water heal is far more balanced now. If you relied on max hp restore before you aren't doing it right. There's no issue here.

balanced? are you fucking serious?

with the new nerf, elemental has no effective healing method except garrison
the upgrade hardly does anything
water elemental is now only used to cure poison(and it costs fking 350 gold) because the healing is shit
basically to beat elemental you buy CA3 along with your normal army

for once, archy made a sensible post

I also tested this, http://www.stickempires.com/?replay=replay9264284&version=2.28

water doesn't heal=balance
Kaito get your fact straight

Quote from Azxc

water doesn't heal=balance
Kaito get your fact straight

Bring in the macro of split your units into groups of 3 THEN use the heal for max effect :P

Regardless of balancing. It's utterly redicilous that upgrading water heal could ever reduce the heal you get in a situation.

That's not just balance isuses, that's a serious game intuition problem.

Quote from WyzDM

Water heal is far more balanced now. If you relied on max hp restore before you aren't doing it right. There's no issue here.

What are you talking about bruh?

Having an empire that can't effectively heal is a big issue considering Chaos and Order pretty much have unlimited heals while Ele is dependent on gold which you can run out of.

Second, the only reason to buy the upgrade is if you want to screw yourself late game. The upgrade is POINTLESS. I'd much rather have the water upgrade do something else like make units immune to poison for a certain amount of time, or make frozen enemies take freeze damage, or poison the frozen enemies, at least something.

I'm not asking for Ele to heal more I just want the upgrade to be somewhat effective and want it to actually be an upgrade instead of a downgrade.

I'm getting the feeling that WyzDM may have influenced the water nerfs. The point of an upgrade is to make whatever it's upgrading better. In the case of water heal, once you buy the upgrade you simply downgrade the spell which is extremely STUPID. Wyz, please tell us the "proper" way to use water heal. Because HEAL in a game, means hp restore, it makes no sense that we wouldn't rely on the hp restore for a HEALING ability.

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

with the new nerf, elemental has no effective healing method except garrison

Chaos only has regeneration and no one complains about that.

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

the upgrade hardly does anything

You mean it doesn't send charrog or cycloid masses back to three quarters full health, it actually scales with the number of units.

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

water elemental is now only used to cure poison(and it costs fking 350 gold) because the healing is shit

That's like saying chaos only has auto cure. Now, I understand chaos regen is free. Waters are 350. But Waters still do a lot of healing. They just scale. So only send them to the units that need it more. The gold cost is a structure issue to the empires, not a water unit specific issue. You're only upset because fires are 475 and airs are 400. This is why I challenged the empire structure in other posts.

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

basically to beat elemental you buy CA3 along with your normal army

^{_{If they have CA3 camp the shit out of them. That's what you do with any other empire in the lead. Get your inferno puddles, make sure you have combinations ready on command, and just hold tower. If it's too hard, it should be because chaos doesn't do any better in this situation either.}}

You fucked up somewhere.

Quote from ArchyBeatz

Having an empire that can't effectively heal is a big issue considering Chaos and Order pretty much have unlimited heals while Ele is dependent on gold which you can run out of.

What's an unlimited heal? Aren't merics more expensive than waters? Do merics move as fast as ninjas? Can they freeze units? Jeeze.

Quote from ArchyBeatz

the only reason to buy the upgrade is if you want to screw yourself late game. The upgrade is POINTLESS. I'd much rather have the water upgrade do something else like make units immune to poison for a certain amount of time, or make frozen enemies take freeze damage, or poison the frozen enemies, at least something.

lmfao let's break the game with more immunity.

Quote from ArchyBeatz

I'm not asking for Ele to heal more I just want the upgrade to be somewhat effective and want it to actually be an upgrade instead of a downgrade.

Oh no, I can't use waters to mass heal my 5 charrogs?! Why don't you find some constructive strat rather then rushing in with units that hold more health than 2 speartons put together?

Quote from nutsophast

I'm getting the feeling that WyzDM may have influenced the water nerfs.

You mad bro?

Quote from nutsophast

The point of an upgrade is to make whatever it's upgrading better. In the case of water heal, once you buy the upgrade you simply downgrade the spell which is extremely STUPID.

Quit. Using. It. In. The. Wrong. Ways. Please.

Quote from nutsophast

Wyz, please tell us the "proper" way to use water heal. Because HEAL in a game, means hp restore, it makes no sense that we wouldn't rely on the hp restore for a HEALING ability.

Yeah I guess I can do that.

First of all, I don't bother with this upgrade until late game. It's not essential til then. I don't have any good replays of me showing off strong use of that because I really don't want to push the game that far against order, but I have some replays that example general water tec that I still don't see anyone use.

In this replay, I don't grab the upgrade. But what I do utilize is how threatening just a water can be. Note the position it has 3:00-4:00. Also note that around 3:30 I make use of how waters can theoretically teleport. What this is doing is simple. When a water freezes, it still moves in the direction of it running momentum. However, at the start of the freeze, it's location point is moved, yet the animation isn't finished. so yeah, you can anim cancel waters for teleports. It's how you can get around walls and stuff. I also use it to shield attacks, and eventually heal fires. simple

This replay I purchase the upgrade planning to use it eventually on a treature or charrog, but don't need because roflcopter. also note how I don't actually heal that much. cause I don't need it. It's more optimal make units than to heal. Now you'll tell me why they need both. Eles don't with this structure, cause treatures come out so fast and you can pop combinations out of your ass anywhere. So yeah, that's it I guess.

if you guys still don't get it well that's too bad. Not saying that just because I don't use it doesn't mean it's not needed, but your use choices are stupid because you were too centralized on water heals when they were broken.

EDIT: You can't strikethrough anymore? Or am I just dumb.

Nope, from what I see you cannot strikethrough anymore.

Quote from WyzDM

What's an unlimited heal? Aren't merics more expensive than waters? Do merics move as fast as ninjas? Can they freeze units? Jeeze.

Merics have the potential to heal and cure the same amount as 100s of waters if you manage to keep the meric alive. Chaos heals and cures on its own. Water can only heal ONCE per unit and can only cure ONCE per unit. That is what i mean by unlimited. Making excessive waters will run your gold supply dry.

Quote from WyzDM

lmfao let's break the game with more immunity.

As I said before I just want to upgrade to actually be beneficial. Right not the upgrade is a downgrade, either change the healing amount, or add something new. But in it's current state it's just taking up an upgrade slot.

Quote from WyzDM

Oh no, I can't use waters to mass heal my 5 charrogs?! Why don't you find some constructive strat rather then rushing in with units that hold more health than 2 speartons put together?

Considering the fact that I'm damn near unbeatable with Ele i would say my strat is pretty good. You're making a fool out of yourself trying to defend an obviously pointless upgrade saying it's not an issue. It's supposed to be an upgrade therefore I expect it to upgrade not downgrade.

What's your beef with elemental bruh? You don't like the rainbow colors or something?

Summary for the TL;DR: You are too noob, I don't even use water healing Kappa
you have to learn how to tree mass

Water Healing is not my problem and we should leave it be, screw you skrubs